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Introduction by Jim Liddane
Jim Lauderdale, born on April 11, 1957 in North Carolina, is a prolific American songwriter, singer, and performer whose contributions to country, bluegrass, and Americana have made him a highly respected figure in the music industry. Known for his unique blend of traditional country with modern influences, Lauderdale has earned a reputation as a songwriter’s songwriter, respected by peers and audiences alike. His music is noted for its sincerity, emotional depth, and the distinctive Southern storytelling style that he has perfected over decades. To date, he has released more than three dozen well-received albums
Raised in a musical family, Lauderdale was surrounded by diverse genres from an early age. His father was a minister and his mother a choir director, which helped expose him to gospel music, while his own curiosity led him to discover country, rock, and soul. Lauderdale’s early interest in music became a passion as he learned to play guitar and began writing songs. He attended the North Carolina School of the Arts, where he studied acting, but his love for music was unrelenting, and he soon decided to pursue a career in the industry.
In the early 1980s, Lauderdale moved to New York City to immerse himself in the vibrant folk and country scene there, where he refined his style and gained a reputation as a compelling performer. Eventually, he relocated to Los Angeles, where he connected with musicians and began working with high-profile country and bluegrass acts. His unique voice and emotive songwriting style caught the attention of country music insiders, and he soon became known as a talented songwriter whose work was suited to both traditional and contemporary country music.
Lauderdale’s breakthrough as a songwriter came in the 1990s when several of his songs were recorded by major country artists. His song "Gonna Get a Life," recorded by Mark Chesnutt., became a number-one hit and established Lauderdale as a major force in Nashville. He went on to write hits for George Strait, including "Where the Sidewalk Ends" and "We Really Shouldn’t Be Doing This." His collaboration with Strait proved to be highly successful, and Lauderdale became known for his ability to write songs that balanced traditional country themes with a modern sensibility. His songs were also recorded by other major artists, including Elvis Costello, Blake Shelton, Patty Loveless, Vince Gill and the Dixie Chicks, further solidifying his reputation.
Lauderdale’s own career as a performer took off with the release of his debut album, “Planet of Love”, in 1991. Produced by Rodney Crowell and John Leventhal, the album was critically acclaimed, though it did not achieve major commercial success. However, it showcased Lauderdale’s skills as both a vocalist and songwriter, blending country, honky-tonk, and rock influences. Over the next several years, he released a series of albums that drew praise from critics and helped build a dedicated fanbase. His music, characterized by heartfelt lyrics, soulful melodies, and a traditional country sound, resonated with audiences seeking an alternative to the polished Nashville mainstream.
Throughout the 1990s and 2000s, Lauderdale continued to release solo albums while also maintaining a prolific career as a songwriter. He collaborated with various musicians and explored different genres, including bluegrass. His partnership with bluegrass legend Ralph Stanley was particularly notable; they recorded the Grammy-winning album “Lost in the Lonesome Pines” in 2002. The album’s success brought Lauderdale new acclaim and allowed him to delve deeper into the bluegrass genre, which he had long admired. His collaborations with Stanley, as well as his own bluegrass albums, helped Lauderdale establish himself as one of the leading figures in contemporary bluegrass.
One of Lauderdale’s defining traits is his adaptability and willingness to experiment. In addition to bluegrass, he has explored soul, R&B, rock, and gospel, weaving these genres into his country roots to create a sound that is uniquely his own. Albums like “Soul Searching” and “London Southern” demonstrate his versatility, as he blends elements of country with soul and blues influences. His wide-ranging discography has allowed him to connect with diverse audiences and stay relevant across different musical trends.
In addition to his work as a performer and songwriter, Lauderdale has been a key figure in promoting Americana music. He has been a regular host of the Americana Music Honors & Awards, where he is celebrated for his contributions to the genre. His support for Americana has helped it grow into a recognized category, blending elements of country, folk, bluegrass, and blues to create a genre that reflects the diversity of American roots music.
Over the years, Lauderdale has received numerous accolades for his contributions to music, including Grammy Awards and multiple nominations. His role as a songwriter has earned him a unique place in Nashville, where he is respected not only for his hit songs but for his dedication to the craft. Despite his success, Lauderdale has remained humble and grounded, often crediting his collaborators and focusing on his love for music over fame or commercial success.
In the 2010s and beyond, Lauderdale continued to release albums at a prolific rate, experimenting with different sounds and themes while remaining true to his country and bluegrass roots. His output during this time has been widely acclaimed, with albums like “This Changes Everything” and “When Carolina Comes Home Again” receiving praise for their blend of classic and modern elements. Lauderdale’s later work often reflects his own experiences and observations on life, showcasing a maturity and introspective quality that has deepened his artistry.
Today, Jim Lauderdale is regarded as one of the most influential and enduring figures in American music. His dedication to songwriting, his willingness to explore new musical avenues, and his commitment to preserving the roots of country and bluegrass have solidified his legacy. Whether performing on stage, recording in the studio, or writing songs for other artists, Lauderdale remains a vibrant and creative force in the music industry, admired by fans and fellow musicians alike for his authenticity, passion, and tireless pursuit of musical expression.
Larry Wayne Clarke interviewed John for the International Songwriters Association's publication "Songwriter Magazine".
Prologue
Jim Lauderdale seems to enjoy the best of two worlds. As an artist, he regularly receives extravagant critical acclaim for his CDs (which unfortunately don’t sell a bundle) as he meanwhile scores cuts by people like George Strait, the Dixie Chicks, Vince Gill, Mark Chesnutt and Patty Loveless folks who, in many cases, do enjoy major commercial success, thereby financing Lauderdale’s own recording efforts. It’s hard to think of him as a frustrated artist but, to some degree, Jim Lauderdale is just that, grateful for his many loyal fans but hungry for his own hit song. Recently he also earned praise as an actor, playing and singing the part of George Jones (whom he somewhat resembles) in a stage production of “Stand By Your Man: The Tammy Wynette Story”.
Born in Statesville, North Carolina, in 1957, Lauderdale grew up in an artistic household and was simultaneously drawn to both music and the theatre. In the ’70s, after graduating from the North Carolina School of the Arts with a bachelor of fine arts degree, he followed the acting bug to New York where he appeared in two national touring productions. In the ’80s he reinvented himself again, moving to Los Angeles where he played regularly at the Palomino Club, becoming a seminal part of the budding Americana scene that included Rosie Flores, Katy Moffatt, Dale Watson, Lucinda Williams and Dave Alvin. Working with producer Pete Anderson (of Dwight Yoakam fame) Lauderdale contributed a song to the compilation album “A Town South of Bakersfield”. A record deal with CBS came to naught when the label failed to release his 1989 album (which would see the light a decade later as “Point Of No Return”).
Signing a writing deal with Bluewater Publishing in 1989 (beginning an association that would last for 15 years and yield close to 500 songs), Lauderdale relocated once more, this time to Nashville where things began to happen. Besides finding himself in hot demand as a songwriter and backup singer, Lauderdale also set forth on a convoluted recording journey that began with “Planet of Love”, released in 1991 on Reprise. Critics loved it but it failed to find a broad audience. In 1994, now on Atlantic, Lauderdale released “Pretty Close To The Truth” and E”very Second Counts”. “Persimmons” was released in 1996 on Rounder's Upstart subsidiary label followed, in 1998, by “Whisper”, on BNA.
“Onward Through It All”, released a year later on RCA, cast Lauderdale in a somewhat more commercially-focused light. But perhaps more importantly 1999 was also the year of “I Feel Like Singing Today”, a traditional bluegrass collaboration with the great Ralph Stanley, released on Rebel Records. That album also included a song co-written with Grateful Dead alumnus Robert Hunter, an excellent lyricist who has become Lauderdale’s most prolific songwriting partner.
Currently recording on the independent Dualtone label, Lauderdale continues his line of eclectic, often brilliant, recordings. “The Other Sessions” marked a return to stone country. “Lost In The Lonesome Pines”, a Grammy-winning second collaboration with Stanley, was released in 2002, as was “The Hummingbirds”. That Grammy, and three Americana Music Association Awards, offer testament to the fact that Lauderdale along with artists including Alison Krauss, Lucinda Williams, newcomer Mindy Smith, even Dolly Parton of late seem to find a more accommodating and fruitful creative home at smart, aggressive independent labels.
We speak on the telephone on an October afternoon, me in Nashville, him in South Carolina where he has a sad task at hand…
This is not a great moment for you.
I’m kind of being overwhelmed right now. Unfortunately my dad passed away in September and I’m going through stuff here at the apartment at the retirement centre he lived in. And he was the power of attorney for a woman over in the nursing home, and I’m trying to find certain paper work that was misplaced.
So anyway, I was planning to get out of here a couple of days ago and I just keep finding more and more stuff to go through. So I’m here down in Due West, South Carolina. I may get off this afternoon; I’m just not sure. I wanted to sit in with some friends of mine that are playing in Nashville, called Open Road. They’re a bluegrass band from Colorado and they’re in town. I don’t know if I’m gonna make it or not tonight.
I may check that out. I love bluegrass.
I had been doing a kind of a regular thing at the Station Inn [Nashville’s primary bluegrass venue], which I hope to start up again before too long, with my bluegrass band. I will be performing I think it’s the 17th of November in Nashville with my electric country/Americana-type band at 3rd & Lindsley. I kinda alternate between solo, my bluegrass band, my electric band, [jam/roots band] Donna The Buffalo and Ralph Stanley. I’ve got kinda five different configurations I play in.
I sometimes marvel at the eclecticism we’re steeped in now. You think of a Bill Monroe and you see a stern-faced patriarch who was all about bluegrass. Many of the famous jazz guys hated country. The Tin Pan Alley masters were stopped in their tracks by rock ’n’ roll, which they just couldn’t get. But our generation, and the one that followed even more so, are pretty accepting of everything. I sometimes wonder, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
It’s a good thing because I think there’ll always be folks who, in their genre, are very strong and focused on that particular genre. I guess when I was coming up I had so many influences so I just kinda enjoy exploring all of them and will continue to do that. And that helps keep things fresh for me. But then there’ll always be folks that are so good in their field that they’ll be specialised.
I think for the listeners they still have their choices whether to stay entrenched listening to one style or another, or kinda listen to a little bit of everything.
Yeah, I think that as a listening nation we’ve grown up with a remote control in our hand, very restless. But I sense that in you creatively: you seem to be a real gypsy. And you’re good at all these thing you’re doing. It’s not as if you seem to be trying to find your voice or anything. It just seem to be what you do.
Yeah. Which in some ways, perhaps . . . I don’t know. People used to tell me, when I was first getting my major record deals, that I had to, you know, stay pretty focused on one particular thing per album which, on some records, I have done that. And then some of them have been more eclectic.
You’ve had a lot of record deals!
Yes, I have. About five or six.
Wow. Does that get crazy?
It does. Luckily I think I’ve been able to get some good experiences out of each record deal. With the major record deals we were kind of hoping for . . . the goal is really to have hit singles and everything, and that never happened with me.
I was never embraced by mainstream country radio with my own records. But, thank goodness, I’ve had luck with other people doing my songs that did do real well, and that has enabled me to keep experimenting and do what I want to musically and kind of dive deeper into these different styles I enjoy.
You’ve had people like George Strait helping to support your habit, in other words.
That’s right!
What’s been your biggest commercial success?
I would say probably George Strait cutting my songs. Well, he and Patty Loveless. And then Mark Chesnutt had a Number One song called “I’m Gonna Get A Life” that I wrote with Frank Dycus. That was my first Number One. So I’d say those.
And then the Dixie Chicks covered a song called “Hole In My Head” that Buddy Miller and I wrote that was on their Fly record. And that did so well commercially that it kinda put that song up with all the other ones.
I look at you and I see this guy getting all kinds of covers by some really strong artists, and on the other hand I see someone going through all these record deals which must be heartbreaking in a way and maybe sensing a certain frustration in your not having been able to get one of those big records with your own name on it. As an artist, is that frustrating for you?
Well, it has been at times in the past. I really don’t think about it anymore. But you kinda do get your hopes up when you get a record deal that maybe that’s gonna happen. And then when it didn’t even though in some ways I’d enjoy the creative process so much while I was making these records I would have the attitude, “You know what? I’m so into making the record that that is the payoff and I don’t care what happens commercially with it” but every time I’d think that I would still be disappointed when I wouldn’t have the singles. But then I could fall back on the satisfaction that I felt in that creative process.
And then since I’ve had this last record deal on Dualtone we haven’t gone for the country radio singles. I guess we’ve put out six records with Dualtone, so I’ve just don’t think about it anymore. I mean, when I do make my next country record I’m sure there’ll be some songs on there that potentially could be on country radio, but it’s such an extreme long shot that it would have to be a fluke for it to happen which I’m open for but I don’t have expectations about it.
So you’re enjoying the process.
Yes.
And trying to be level-headed about it all. You know, in many ways you seem to have an excellent career.
Yeah, it’s all kind of settled and fallen into place, the different things I’ve shot for. Things have just kinda worked out. It’s just been real rewarding to work with people like Ralph Stanley and Robert Hunter and Donna The Buffalo. And the guest pickers I’ve had on my records, like David Grisman and Tony Rice, Sam Bush, Stuart Duncan, just to name a few. It really does mean a lot to me when I get to work with these people on stage and in the studio, so that’s really been a great blessing.
I love your stuff with Ralph Stanley.
Thank you.
I can only imagine it must be a great honour to share a creative experience with him.
It really is great to write stuff that we’re gonna do together, and write things for him to sing, and to play on stage with him. Just the other day I was up in Virginia Clintwood and they had the opening of a museum for Ralph, and I just really enjoy watching him get the attention he deserves that has been happening the last several years. And just the fact that he is a living artist and here there’s a museum for him! That’s just really, really great.
He must have been awfully humbled by that.
Oh yes. He really was. He spoke at the function and it was just very touching.
How much time are you spending on the road? How many dates?
Well, more and more over the last couple of years. There were times when I would make a record and then the record would come out and I would be on the road, and then depending on whether or not I still had that deal for a while if I didn’t, or even if I did and I made a few records for the company I spent so much time in the studio and writing that my roadwork was kinda sporadic. But over the last couple of years those dates have been multiplying, and so I would say I probably spend almost half of my time on the road at least.
And then I come and look in I was looking in on both of my folks but now I’ll come and look in on my mom every couple of weeks, when I’m not on the road at least. She has Alzheimer’s and is in a nursing home here in South Carolina so I come and look in on her regularly. So I’m not at home in Nashville very much unfortunately but, when I am, I’m always either writing or co-writing or in the studio.
So Nashville is home to you?
Yeah, that’s my home base.
I’m really sorry to hear about your parents. It sounds like you’ve been immersed in every kind of misfortune there.
Yes, well, her Alzheimer’s has been coming on for about the last eight or nine years so that has taken a lot of time to support and look in on both of them. Unfortunately my dad got diagnosed, towards the end of July, with cancer of the gall bladder which had spread to his liver and unfortunately it was just too late to treat it. So he only survived about six weeks after that diagnosis.
Perhaps a blessing in disguise.
It could have been. Luckily he didn’t suffer greatly before he passed away, which was good.
But he was a great man and it’ll take me a while to accept his death. He was a very well-loved man by everybody that knew him. He was just very giving and very wise, a very loving person. He was a retired minister, associate Reformed Presbyterian minister, and I really feel like he and my mother both walked the walk. They were really good examples of what good people are, so I was very fortunate to have such good parents.
What did they give to you musically?
My mom taught chorus in school and was a choir director, and Dad had a great voice. His dad was also a minister and when we would gather for family reunions and Thanksgiving and summertime we would always sing psalms together, and many of my cousins and aunts and uncles had really good voices.
They both played a lot of music around the house and so did my older sister and I think that I kinda got ear-training out of hearing so much music, whether they were playing it at home or whether it was just in the environment in North and South Carolina where I lived, or whether I was listening to my sister playing her Beatles records or just the Top 40 radio during the ’60s.
And then I was a college disc jockey when I was 13 here at Erskine College for three years, and so just having so much music to access really kinda broadened my horizons. I always remember that on the radio shows I had I would mix things up between stuff ranging from bluegrass to country to folk to Santana to Frank Zappa to John McLaughlin the guitar player.
But my family really did influence me a lot.
Were you also playing live at that point in your life?
Well, just for friends and get-togethers. I played drums in public school in Charlotte, North Carolina, when we lived there and then, when I was in the eighth grade, we moved to South Carolina. Unfortunately they didn’t have music in the public schools and I started playing blues harmonica, and I would jam on the drums some with some of the college students. And then I really got bitten by the bluegrass bug and got a banjo. For a time my goal was really just to be a banjo player and bluegrass singer.
And then when I was 17 I finished high school up in North Carolina at the Carolina Friends School [a Quaker “free school” without grades] I started playing rhythm guitar and I did have a duet with a friend of mine named Rick Bouley, and we would play a good bit up there in the Chapel Hill area. Rick sold instruments at festivals. He had a store called Oxbow Music and I’d travel with him some to bluegrass festivals and help him sell strings and guitars, and we’d play. You know, in the bluegrass world there’s a lot of jamming so I was fortunate to be able to be around much more experienced musicians, more capable musicians, so I picked up a lot of stuff that way.
I was surprised to learn how much of your life has had to do with acting. I knew about you playing George Jones in that show at the Ryman, but you were actually up in New York seeking work as an actor.
Well, when I was in high school I was in some plays and worked in the summer times, until I went to college, at the Flat Rock Playhouse, working in the snack bar and I was the assistant maintenance man. So I enjoyed being around that and then I was accepted into the North Carolina School of the Arts their drama program, which was really a rigorous program. It was like going to med school or something, they were so busy, but an excellent school. And I was still playing music. I’d been in a bluegrass band my freshman year and then it got so hectic that I was just doing solo gigs and I had a fellow named David Wood that played pedal steel and Telecaster, and our sets would be very eclectic. I’d do my own songs I’d started writing by then or some Gram Parsons or Hank Williams, George Jones, old blues and R&B stuff, soul music.
But when I got out of school I moved to Nashville for a while and then I moved up to New York about five months later. I wasn’t able to make any professional inroads that were going to help support me and a lot of my college pals were up in New York. And I’d met somebody, a fellow named John Messler, who got me a gig at a place called O’Lunney’s and I went up to New York, and I was a messenger and had other day jobs. I was trying to pursue getting a record deal and, at the time, up in New York there were a lot of lot of really great country players. I was in a bluegrass band there were some good bluegrass players up there too and then I was in Floyd Domino’s band. Floyd had been the original piano player for Asleep At The Wheel. So I was his vocalist for a while. And then Buddy Miller was up there at the time and so we developed a friendship.
But I was in a house band at a country place in New Jersey and then I got hired by Harry Chapin and Tom Chapin to be in a play called Cotton Patch Gospel, where I played banjo. And then that led, a few years later, to playing guitar and singing in a play called Pump Boys & Dinettes. And I was in Chicago with that for a while. And then I got in a show called Diamond Studs where I played Jesse James that was kinda my biggest break at that time and Shawn Colvin played my wife. And the Red Clay Ramblers were the gang. And I kept thinking that that was going to be my springboard into getting a record deal and things, but unfortunately that show didn’t last long and I ended up out in L.A. with the show Pump Boys just intending to stay in L.A. for a couple of months.
And I just kind of really became immersed in the club scene in L.A. There was a very healthy and vibrant music scene out there with people like Lucinda Williams and Dave Alvin and Katy Moffatt and just a lot of really talented folks. And then Buddy Miller ended up moving down to L.A. and I felt awkward about it, ’cause I saw him as someone way beyond me, but I was fortunate to have him as my guitar player for a while.
So I enjoyed doing theatre stuff but my real fire was in trying to write and have my own records out and tour. And the theatre stuff, it was a great day job, because you have to do something, you know, while you’re waiting for things to kinda break for you.
It sounds like all the theatre was music-related too.
Exactly, yes. Kind of countryish or bluegrassy type music. And then I was very pleased to portray George Jones in this play a few years back. We actually premiered it at the Flat Rock Playhouse where I had worked as a kid, and one of the reasons why I did it was that, and then also my folks were spending a lot of time up there so I got to kinda bond with them. I’d been travelling so much, you know, that it was really great to be able to be in one place where they were. I had turned the part down and then I found out George Jones wanted me to do it, gave the show his blessing and so it was just a great experience portraying him, because George is one of my main influences since I was a kid I was just totally smitten with his music and voice and I got to perform in front of him. During the show and on his birthday at the Grand Ole Opry. He took me out to eat one night with his wife and it was like a surreal experience to be able to be in close contact with him.
Who played your Tammy Wynette?
A very talented woman named Nicolette Hart. We really did have a great cast. It was just one of those once-in-a-lifetime things. The acting thing is something I’m not really pursuing, you know. If some interesting thing kinda falls into my lap then I’ll see if it’s something I want to take up. It’s depending on the project.
It’s interesting how many singers are delving into acting with whatever degree of intensity. Apparently Tim McGraw is very good in this football movie he’s in [“Friday Night Lights”].
That’s what I’ve heard. Yeah, that’s great.
And Faith Hill was just in a movie. Randy Travis has been pursuing all of that for years.
Travis Tritt. Eminem! [chuckles]
Well, he was very good in 8 Mile. Probably one of the best insights into that world that I’ve had because I don’t really get hip-hop and rap. That movie was quite a revelation for me.
I want to see that sometime.
Would you agree that singing is somehow related to acting?
It’s hard to say. I think a lot of musicians and singers have the desire to broaden out, branch out, and do that kind of thing. There’s probably bound to be some good instincts or similarities that they can draw on to bring to their roles from being musicians.
But there is a huge amount of difference, really. There’s different technical things. Some people are just natural actors though.
When you were in L.A. you worked with Pete Anderson for a time.
Right. I did, and I’ll tell you, as was my luck at the time, we did a record we were both very happy about. It was a very kind of Bakersfield-sounding country record Buck Owens is a big influence on me and we were real excited about it. And then when the record company heard [it] they just, as happens to many people that you just don’t hear about, they just weren’t enthused about releasing it. I think at that time the record was a little too country for country! And so unfortunately it wasn’t released and that was kind of a big awakening, as well as a disappointment, for me.
But I think that with these big disappointments it forced me… My choice of action, even though it was very depressing, was to go back to the drawing board and write something to take me out of my situation, you know, something to further my work. It just kinda made me very determined to create something on my own that could take me to a different place, and so I wrote a lot during that period. Every time that would happen…I mean, there were times of course I was despondent about things, but that was the route I took to get out of that in order to make something happen, was just to kinda take the bull by the horns.
Were you writing by yourself? Did you ever co-write in those days?
Both. I was mostly writing by myself and then a fellow in New York named John Leventhal he and Rodney Crowell co-produced my record on Reprise called Planet of Love he and I started a real magical collaboration; I feel like we really hit it off. As I was finishing up the album that didn’t get released, we began writing and that really went well. And there’ve been a few people since then. I don’t want to leave anybody out but just a few of the folks that I’ve written a lot with: Robert Hunter, I’ve probably written with most with him. And a fellow I mentioned earlier, Frank Dycus. We’ve written a lot. And Melba Montgomery, and Leslie Satcher. Clay Blaker, Terry McBride. And most recently a very talented man named Shawn Camp.
And then Harlan Howard was a very important person in my life, and I feel very fortunate to have gotten to write with him. I enjoyed spending time with him and he was just very gracious and generous with me and just a wonderful human being. And I really, really miss Harlan a lot.
He was a great believer, I think I didn’t get to know him personally in the mentoring system, or the apprenticeship system, that Nashville is built on. Which is a marvellous thing really.
It sure is.
So what brought you to Nashville from L.A.? You obviously had already made some connections here.
Well, I started having some success as a songwriter. I think I was too afraid to move to Nashville in case things didn’t work out; I think it would’ve just devastated me. There was such a great scene going on in L.A. at the time. I was basing out of there and playing a lot in town, going out touring. And going to the desert a lot to write. I just really enjoyed it.
And then, as scenes will do, certain clubs, like the Palomino Club, closed down. That kinda threw a damper on things. And, as the songs did well, I eventually started spending more and more time in Nashville and started recording my demos at a place called Moondog Studio and got hooked up with a fellow named Tim Coats. Garry Tallent owns Moondog he’s Bruce Springsteen’s bass player and Tim and I just really hit it off. He’s a great engineer. I was writing for this company, Bluewater, who I was with for 15 years until just recently, and it afforded me a lot of freedom. As I would go in the studio to make a demo for my publisher of whatever songs I had written that might be pitchable to other artists, at the same time I would be experimenting on music that I’d want to record on my own.
So as I began recording more and more at Moondog I was spending more and more time in Nashville, and I rented Buddy and Julie Miller’s upstairs at their house and stayed there for a while. I had a couple of records out on Atlantic out of L.A. at this time which were kind of eclectic records they were categorised as country records but I was pushing the envelope pretty much with those. And then I did a record for a subsidiary of Rounder the Upstart label and it was called “Persimmons”. And then I got a deal on RCA Records and I wanted to make an unmistakably country record as a show of respect to that genre, and there again I think my timing was either behind or ahead or just off, but I think it was too country for what was going on at the time. But I did make one more record for that label.
But during that time I hooked up with Ralph Stanley, as I made that first record called Whisper for RCA, and it was a really good thing for me, and then got to make the follow-up record called Onward Through It All. So that was about nine years ago, I suppose, that I started kind of gradually moving into Nashville and then I eventually bought a house there and [became] based out of there.
Do you spend time in Europe? Do you go overseas much?
I used to quite a bit and then that started tapering off just as I was in between deals and everything. I went back last November and did a Gram Parsons tribute show in London. And then I was over in London and Dublin last June and it was a lot of fun. I had met a fellow named John Paul Jones who was the bass player for Led Zeppelin at Merlefest last year and I told him I was going to be there in London. He’s quite a fine mandolin player so he came out to the show I was doing I was just doing a solo show and he sat in with me for five songs, and that was just a lot of fun.
But I think I’ll be going to Holland in April and I will probably build some stuff around that. I really do enjoy going over; I just haven’t had the chance. So I hope every year I get to go to various places.
Your relationship with Robert Hunter is quite a unique one. Your collaborations are done, if I understand correctly, with a complete division between lyric and music?
Yeah, that’s right. I leave all the lyrics to him and then I do all the melodies. Except there’s one song called “High Timberline” that kicks off Headed For The Hills and, after we had written it, Robert called and left on my answering machine a great third melody part that I feel elevates the song to a whole different place, so I was very appreciative of that. But I feel like he’s such a genius lyrically it’s just really great to work with him.
That’s kind of a rare thing to find in today’s collaborations. I mean, I guess we had it with Bernie Taupin and Elton John but, for the most part, people are brainstorming words and music together. This is almost like a Broadway thing, what you’re describing.
Yeah. Well, when I lived in New York years ago one of the tenants in the building I lived in was a fellow by the name of Doc Pomus, and he was a very warm man, very friendly. Of course, he co-wrote things like “Viva Las Vegas” and “Little Sister” and “Save The Last Dance For Me” with Mort Shuman. Doc was a great lyricist and it was very inspiring to be with him. Unfortunately we never got to write together before he passed away. But that was one of my goals was to write with Doc.
Yeah, he was a real creature of that whole Brill Building style of writing. So you’re okay with that, working around somebody else’s lyric outline?
Sure. Oh yeah, because I have such great respect for Robert Hunter. And Frank Dycus and I mostly had an arrangement like that where Frank would send me lyrics or I would give him melodies. I feel like I’m the lucky one to have gotten to work with these men.
So you wouldn’t be working in the same room with either of them?
Sometimes. It worked both ways. Robert originally, before we even met, faxed me lyrics and then I sent him a tape of a couple of melodies and he wrote the lyrics. But then, when he came to Nashville for about six weeks, I would go and we’d chat for a while and a melody would come to me and I’d leave it on a tape for him Usually one to three melodies. And then the next day or the day after he’d have a completed lyric. So I’d come up with the melodies while we were there [together] but then he would write the lyrics at a different time.
So the moral of the story is there’s no one way to do this.
Oh, of course, yes. There’s so many different ways for everybody to do stuff.
I hope this Dualtone Records thing turns out to be the answer for you. I’m starting to think that for guys like you and I look at people like Alison Krauss for a case in point of somebody who’s succeeding at a strong independent label that just might be the best way to grow a career these days.
It is, because [with] a major label, really the only purpose to be on one and the goal for them is to have hit singles, because that drives your record sales more than anything.
And if that’s not happening then there’s so much time tied up with them you know, they might delay the release of your record for a long time and things like that so you can kinda move ahead at a lot faster pace if you are with an independent label, just because the expectations are so much different. So the major label thing doesn’t work for everybody. I’m really glad that I had that experience and got to work with the people at those labels. There are a lot of really good folks involved who tried to make things work for me but then, on the other hand, they have acts that become priorities as they are successful and they kinda have to put their attention behind those. But it did serve a good purpose for me when I was there.
And it depends on the project. If the right thing came along I wouldn’t turn it down. I’m kind of a free agent right now.
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